I Want to See You Be Brave
- Dr. Tom Wagner
- Sep 28
- 6 min read
Updated: Oct 3
It takes courage to stay at the table when conversations get hard. Here are ways to be brave enough to listen, connect, and build bridges where others see walls.
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I Want to See You Be Brave
The tone for our September 21 Sunday Morning Café gathering was set by Annalise Wagner (lawyer, my daughter) and Lynn O’Brien (singer/songwriter/speaker). Wagner’s presentation challenged us to engage in “courageous conversations.” O’Brien’s music dared us to “be brave.” The guests took up those calls and turned themselves into co-creators of a little gem of an afternoon. At one point, I stepped back to take it all in. You know how sometimes a photograph will look too good to be true? Like it’s just too idyllic? That’s how the room appeared to me: warm and animated conversations, artisanal food, good coffee…all bathed in a brand new autumn’s light. I wanted to bottle up that experience and take it out into the world. There’s so much division…so much confusion…so much isolation. It seems like a rudder has gone missing, or a load-bearing beam is buckling.
I wrote an article last December that touches on a part of what we shared together at last Sunday’s gathering. As you can see, I’m re-posting it. Give it a read for the first time, or the second. See how it might speak to our collective journey through this strange wilderness. More and more, I am feeling that you and I, and no one else, are the leaders for this moment. I hope this article will slide a couple of more tools into your courageous conversations toolbelt. Lynn O’Brien said it like this, “I want to see you be brave!”
How to Speak Across Ideological Divides
My colleague, Bill Doherty, noticed earlier than most the way that media outlets and social media have turbo-charged the natural human tendency to gravitate toward people who are like us. After thirty or so years of this dynamic, it’s almost as if the Iron Curtain of the last century migrated across the Atlantic and repurposed itself. Its new use is to sort Americans into polarized gated communities. For so many of us, the political is, now, deeply personal. If my candidate wins an election, I win! If they lost, not only have they lost, but I’ve lost my country! That’s why Bill founded the non-partisan, volunteer organization, Braver Angels. Its mission is to depolarize America by creating courageous conversations across America’s political divides.
Lately, I’ve been circling around the idea of joining up with this crew as a form of self-help. Somewhere along the way, I discovered that my graduate studies in marriage and family therapy provide no guarantee of proper marital communication in my own marriage. Similarly, Dr. Tom has discovered that being a counselor doesn’t inoculate him from messing up in political conversations. In fact, it was about this time last year, when I more or less passed political gas at an otherwise enjoyable and rare meal with a gang of old friends. Fortunately, these fellas love me, and we got things straightened out…enough. In what looks like a new yearly tradition, I’m getting ready to go on a boys’ weekend with that same crew next week. I suspect that’s the underlying reason that I recently picked up Monica Guzman’s book, I Never Thought of It That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times. So far, I’m loving what I’m reading.
Guzman is on the executive committee of Braver Angels and is herself a journalist trained to speak across political divides. Probably, her best credential to write such a book is that she comes from a politically divided family. Despite their common experience of emigrating from Mexico to the US, she and her family diverge politically. In the last three Presidential elections, her parents have voted for Trump. Monica has voted consecutively for Clinton, Biden, and Harris.
She starts her book with the observation that so many of us are infuriated with people on the other side, because we just can’t understand where they’re coming from. Maybe they’ve had the experience of watching someone like me mishandling a hot topic across the political divide, and determined to steer clear of that particular hot stove.
Guzman notes that every time we decide we can’t talk about politics, one more place of friction between us goes away. One more bridge is burned between people of opposing political viewpoints. And this kind of distance doesn’t make anybody’s heart grow fonder. Rather, it’s easier to see in the “other” something that’s not there, or something that’s not there as much as we think it is. Just because you think that a person voted for a monster doesn’t make the person who did the voting…a monster. It’s difficult, she says, to maintain curiosity about someone when you’ve pinned them into a category. She cites the work of the author, Ian Leslie, who encourages his readers and audiences to understand that people aren’t “puzzles to be solved,” rather, they are “mysteries to be discovered” a-little-at-a-time over the years. So, what does she recommend? Very briefly, I’d like to share some of the tools revealed in Guzman’s research. I plan on taking some of these tools with me on my upcoming boys’ weekend.
Building Bridges
Put on Your Curiosity, Take off Your Need to Persuade
It’s a fool’s errand trying to persuade your family member or friend of the error in their point of view. It seldom, if ever, works. Check your experience, and you will find that it’s virtually impossible to talk someone out of their political opinion in the course of a conversation. If you do influence their perspective, it’s more likely to occur in a moment when they feel understood or connected to you.
The Truth in Their Story
Most of us pick one of two pathways when confronted with something that we believe to be blatantly false. We either tend to hit the abort button to exit the conversation, or we feel the moral imperative to correct the mistruth. The Braver Angels initiative would have us switch the conversation from what is true to what is meaningful. Guzman encourages her readers to practice the art (and it is an art, even for a counselor) of getting behind how the person came to connect with that idea. “Even when there is no truth in their idea,” she says, “there is truth in their story.” The reason the conversation about truth is ineffective is that there is little trust across our society. See if you can ask questions that gets at their concerns, fears, and hopes.
I once watched a mentor perform a kind of judo with a student who was aggressively attacking her for her point of view. She non-judgmentally observed the energy in the student, and then asked, “What has awakened such passion in you about this topic?” The effect was immediate and amazing!
Be Curious, Not Judgmental
The crowning virtue in building a bridge across the ideological chasm is curiosity. You will know that you’re practicing a muscular curiosity when you catch yourself saying, “I never thought of it that way!” (INTOIT). The goal of the Braver Angels initiative is that more of us would begin stacking up INTOIT moments.
Be A Contemplative In Action
Over the years, I’ve found that the number one skill for a resilient marriage and family is knowing how to soothe down your own heart. Any spiritual practice that helps you soothe down your heart is invaluable in this work. Be sure to monitor your breathing and reactivity. If you catch yourself in a judgmental frame of mind, switch back to curiosity.
Dialogue and Discussion Questions: Longtime SMC readers know that “the Dialogue” section of this article is set aside for a good conversation over a cup of coffee—with a friend, with a group, or just with yourself! As always, feel free to share your reaction or reflection in the “Comments” section below.
Who do you hang out with who thinks differently than you? What allows this relationship to thrive?
When have you engaged successfully in a courageous conversation around different ideologies? What helped?
What lessons have you picked up in your failed attempts to engage in courageous conversations across ideological lines?
Who do you know who is really good at these kinds of conversations? What have you seen them do that works?
Please share with the SMC community your thoughts and/or reflections in the comments below.
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